Can Riot Grrrl still be seen within society today?
Has there been a new genre or 'scene' of girl that has stemmed from this movement?
What kind of bands/individuals were involved in this movement?
Pitchfork's interview with Kathleen Hanna
Pussy Riot is the most important band of 2012. That's what you'll hear from countless artists, including Kathleen Hanna and Tobi Vail, feminist icons and founding members of seminal riot grrrl group Bikini Kill. Since three of the Russian punk group's members were detained this spring on grounds of "hooliganism" for performing a song that included the lyrics "Mother of God, Virgin Mary, drive Putin away" inside of a Moscow church, there has been no shortage of commentary and activism in their defense. But perhaps Hanna summed it up best: "SERIOUSLY THEY ARE IN A FUCKING CAGE!!!"
Bikini Kill and the 1990s riot grrrl movement were huge sources of inspiration for Pussy Riot in their fight against Russian President Vladimir Putin via public performance art. This makes sense aesthetically and politically in Russia, where feminist politics are scarce. "Liberalism in Russia is a peculiar beast," former Pitchfork contributor Michael Idov wrote last week in The New York Times. "Gender equality [remains] firmly outside its scope."
Hanna, though, sees Pussy Riot's actions as inspired grounds for a new movement entirely, which could potentially reinvigorate feminist artists around the world-- without thinking retrospectively. With the case's verdict coming Friday, as well as a day of protest ensuing worldwide, Hanna spoke on her thoughts regarding their radical music, the intersection of art and activism in 2012, and her great hopes of touring with Pussy Riot once they're free.
Pitchfork: Has there been a single group over the past decade or so that's made you as excited as Pussy Riot?
Kathleen Hanna: It's been a long time. I am totally excited about Hysterics, from Olympia, and Wild Flag, but I don't think I've been as excited about anything until this. I really like colorful outfits and feminist performance art and crazy feminist music. The fact that they are calling themselves feminists really made me excited. And that they are from a different country, and aren't afraid to talk about stuff that isn't normally considered under the rubric of feminism. Typically, people think if you're a feminist, all you talk about is women. But it's much larger than that; all things are connected. It seemed to me that they clearly [understood] that. I was excited about them inspiring other people to make music-- I was working on a new album and felt really inspired by it, too.
Pitchfork: What do you like about their outfits?
KH: I thought it was really interesting how they were wearing ski masks-- this leaderless feminist performance art project that had so many connections to feminists I like. The idea [of anonymity] can mean a lot of things. Guerrilla Girls from the United States hid their faces to not lose their jobs and ruin their status in the art world, when they first began. For Pussy Riot, it was to avoid jail and police violence. That's a lot more intense than worrying, "We want a feminist movement that is leaderless," in terms of safety issues.
"So many people think that your work gets boring and preachy if you start talking about issues, but Pussy Riot proved that's total bullshit."
Pitchfork: What connections would you draw between riot grrrl in the 90s and what Pussy Riot have been doing?
KH: Well, speaking of the ski masks, I did an interview in '91 or '92 and was wearing a ski mask. It was my pathetic attempt at having riot grrrl be leaderless, because everyone was saying I was the leader. And I didn't want my looks to be focused on. There is definitely the commonality of having something that is not copy-written. Anybody can be Pussy Riot. We are all Pussy Riot.
What I am thinking about now is the phenomenon of it-- from the personal standpoint of being a woman in your 20s who is getting that kind of attention. What happens when, hopefully, they get out of jail very soon? How they will be received? And what kind of pressure are they going to be under? With Bikini Kill, we got that kind of attention and it was really complicated and confusing, but their thing is on such a higher level. I am interested to see if the support system sustains itself, for them as individuals and for the project.
Pitchfork: You made a video about Pussy Riot for your website (above). I was glad to see that you expressed so much anger in that video.
KH: Of course. As a feminist artist, how could you not feel anger? When their rights are taken away, all of our rights are taken away. It's like watching one of those creepy, fucked up TV shows where women are being serial killed. Or like watching Jaws and seeing Jaws kill the woman in the bikini, and forever being afraid to go into the ocean. This is the kind of thing that makes people afraid to make art. Even if it's not in the country where you live, knowing that people anywhere are going to be afraid to make art is a really scary thought. They were put in jail, but it's also important to not downplay the fact that, in the U.S., a lot of women go to jail for things they shouldn't go to jail for, and take really big risks by saying they're feminists, and by being artists. They risk violence. That's not a small thing.
We still have women [in America] who are going to prison because their boyfriends were drug dealers. There's still fucked up shit happening here. It's just different. When I was in Bikini Kill, I had a guy pull me off the stage by my ankles and another guy spit an entire beer in my face. And men reaching over people to shake my body by the shoulders, and tons of hate mail. I know these are things that probably still happen to girls on the road all the time.
I feel that's why feminists-- and especially feminist musicians-- feel connected to this, because they've put themselves on the line and they've been violated or experienced a threat or real violence as a result of it. That makes me feel very connected to them, even though I never went to jail. There is art that is never made due to fear, and this just makes that fear even bigger.
"Everyone is always asking me, 'How do we restart riot grrrl?'
And I'm like, 'Don't.' Who wants to restart something
that's 20 years old? Start your own fucking thing."
Pitchfork: On your blog, you wrote about the possibility of Pussy Riot splintering into local chapters and beginning a global movement. How do you envision that happening?
KH: It would be really cool if this reinvigorated feminists from all over the world-- taking on the appearance of Pussy Riot, but not in a cutesy way. Taking it on in a way that makes sense locally, making change around that. There could be "We are Pussy Riot Olympia," "We are Pussy Riot Tennessee," "We are Pussy Riot Warsaw." It could be a source of inspiration that grows and grows, and spreads and spreads, in a way that is natural because it is coming from the Pussy Riot Three, and all of that excitement and fear.
Everyone is always asking me, "How do we restart riot grrrl?" And I'm like, "Don't." Because something's organically going to happen on its own; you can't force it. Who wants to restart something that's 20 years old? Start your own fucking thing. This could be a part of a lot of people starting their own fucking thing.
Pitchfork: Do you mean things like activist groups and bands?
KH: All of the above. I'm getting emails from people saying, "I want to do a benefit. How do I do that?" One thing riot grrrl did, which this will do on a much larger scale, was get people excited to do things like benefits, even if they've never done one. Once they do a benefit for Pussy Riot, they are going to know how to do shows. That's how things get started and grow.
Pitchfork: What do you like about Pussy Riot's music itself?
KH: The unbridled, joyful energy, which I haven't heard in a long time. And in their videos, it seems that while they are filming these dangerous live performance pieces in train stations (above)-- jumping around, wearing their outfits-- they have one guitar and no other instruments. I was thinking, "Is the music actually playing?" [It shows] they care about their own safety, that they are hiding their faces, and not necessarily playing the music while performing.
There are a lot of women who have to change their art in order to avoid violence. But they don't do it in as incredibly an artistic way as this band does. And Pussy Riot's stakes are so much higher. If I were on a packed subway right now, and I tried to do feminist comedy, I would fear for my safety, but I wouldn't fear that I would get put in jail.
I mean, I feel totally damaged by the TV show "Frasier", but I can't call up the police and get Kelsey Grammer arrested. A lot of the people [in Moscow] who were in the church [when Pussy Riot performed their "Punk Prayer"] said they were physically damaged by this; that it has ruined their lives. Well, I am still damaged by seeing Bush/Cheney bumper stickers, but I can't just go rip them off someone's car. I can't just decide that they shouldn't exist. It's scary to think that feminist performance artists have to be completely afraid; that they can't make whatever the fuck they want. But I hope this doesn't make more women afraid. I hope this makes more women ready to fight.
"If we can keep ideas of free speech and feminist art alive while they're still in captivity, we can help them stay free."
Pitchfork: Pussy Riot's closing statements were extremely inspiring-- the idea that, although they're behind bars, they're more free than these people who are always censored. How do you think we can keep Pussy Riot and their ideas liberated, in the event that they are jailed longer?
KH: People can be in a prison of their own mind. [There are] people who don't have their hearts open to other people's ideas, and can't listen to other people's ideas without feeling like they're being slapped in the face. Those people are more in a prison. At least [Pussy Riot's] ideas are free. If we can keep ideas of free speech and feminist art alive while they're still in captivity, we can help them stay free.
Pitchfork: When you first heard about the case, did it even cross your mind that it could still be going on this long?
KH: From my sheltered American perspective, I thought, "They will get three days." Because the charge of hooliganism sounds like a "Tom and Jerry" cartoon if you are from America. Like, "hooliganism"? Did they put a whoopie cushion on someone's chair? Five months is a crazy amount of time to be away from your children, but I don't know if people in Russia think it's all that crazy.
Pitchfork: You mentioned that, if they are sentenced, people should travel to Russia en masse. Is that something you would like to take part in organizing?
KH: Definitely. I love the idea that there could be an equalizing element to get all these people together-- men and women-- to be like "We are Pussy Riot, and we're gonna occupy," whether it's that specific church or some location and not leave until they're freed. My husband [the Beastie Boys' Ad Rock] did a benefit for them and hopefully I'll be able to take part in benefits in the future.
"I really want to tour with Pussy Riot."
Pitchfork: What else do you think people can learn from Pussy Riot and the situation at hand?
KH: Activism can take a gazillion different forms. It doesn't have to be boring. Also, you can mix your activism with your art. There's been this long-standing divorce that's happened between activism and art in the United States, where it's totally a threat if you put politics near art, and people laugh at you. If it's feminism, they tell you all you're doing is therapy for yourself. And the inspirational thing about Pussy Riot getting so much attention, and their music being so great and so inspirational, is that it can be fun... besides the jail part.
That's what's so bizarre is that when I was originally introduced to their videos, I was like, "Oh my god! They're mixing their politics with their art, and their art's actually really good!" And then they're in jail. It was like being on the top of the mountain and then being dropped off.
Pitchfork: It was very sudden. They were only active for a couple of months.
KH: Exactly. It reinvigorated me in terms of thinking that the politics and art connection can happen in a way that's really beautiful. So many people think your work gets boring and preachy if you start talking about issues, but Pussy Riot proved that's total bullshit. Your art can actually be improved by singing or screaming or moving in a way that actually relates to your real-life situation.
Pitchfork: Were there any specific ways you felt personally inspired by that?
KH: I got excited to finish [the Julie Ruin's] record and tour because I really want to tour with them. Hopefully our record will be out by the time they're out of jail so we can tour together-- but I don't want it to be in three years!
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